I'm wondering how far they're going to be able to take Ollie down this path before the guilt eats him alive. And how are the JLA going to react? Is there anybody in the core group who hasn't taken a life? How hypocritical can we expect them to be? Who's gonna side with Ollie? Hal? He's hardly an innocent schoolboy himself...

Rise and Fall is definitely on my reading list of the immediate future. March is going to be a busy month.

I think just about everyone has killed in some form or another. Even Dick in a sense because he stepped aside and down went Blockbuster. I admit I mentally punched the air when Ollie shot that arrow. Finally, someone with some balls.

I'm sure some people will have been so incensed at the 'senseless slaughter of an innocent' that they stop reading, or at least stop buying, for a time. The fact that an entire city was slaughtered doesn't seem to count for much. (In the JLA cartoons, I'd watch the team battle aliens and villains and send huge buildings toppling, left right and centre, and I'd wonder if anybody ever tried calculating a body count for all that distruction. )

I didn't quite punch the air when Ollie took the shot, but I may have given a tiny fistpump. I do like characters that have grey (and even black) smudges on their soul. It adds dimension. Goody Two Shoes characters bore me.

To the people who are pissed at Lian’s death, yes it is fridging (a death that is used as a plot device, to those who haven’t heard the term. it comes from when Kyle Rayner’s girlfriend was killed and stuffed into a fridge just so he could be darker; it came out of nowhere), but the point to it is to keep Roy in action. After losing his arm, logically, he would leave the heroics to the other heroes, and take care of his daughter more. Now, he has nothing left, and so they can continue to do stories with him; his character can still be used to dance the mad dance of the writers. Not saying I support Lian’s death, just saying why (proceed to be more or less pissed as you see fit).

That... actually makes a kind of sense that is usually lacking in DCU's 'Let's kill someone for shock value' deaths. With a daughter and only one arm, Roy's logical reaction would be to drop the hero schtick and concentrate on Lian. But! They could have kept Roy in 'the game' by doing what Prometheus said he was going to do - send Star City off into time and space, so Roy, the League, and anyone/everyone else could angst and rage and try to get them back.

I do wonder now if this means that when the dark clouds pass we'll get more or less of Roy. It could go either way, couldn't it? Personally I think he should have his own book and I'm consused about whether this is a step away from it or twards it.

I'm sure some people will have been so incensed at the 'senseless slaughter of an innocent' that they stop reading, or at least stop buying, for a time. The fact that an entire city was slaughtered doesn't seem to count for much. (In the JLA cartoons, I'd watch the team battle aliens and villains and send huge buildings toppling, left right and centre, and I'd wonder if anybody ever tried calculating a body count for all that distruction. )

I didn't quite punch the air when Ollie took the shot, but I may have given a tiny fistpump. I do like characters that have grey (and even black) smudges on their soul. It adds dimension. Goody Two Shoes characters bore me.

I think this "explanation" only works if you think Roy getting his arm torn off in the series was a good idea in the first place. It does make sense, but being that both events were written by the same writer in the same series, if you thought Roy losing his arm was a bad idea, there's no way killing off Lian helps to make it better. I thought Roy was an underused character who was very interesting prior to all this. Now he's just another angry, "I lost my family (and an arm) to a criminal" superhero cut from the same mold as The Punisher. There aren't too many single father superheroes though. So for me, Roy has lost what made him stand out.

I think this "explanation" only works if you think Roy getting his arm torn off in the series was a good idea in the first place. It does make sense, but being that both events were written by the same writer in the same series, if you thought Roy losing his arm was a bad idea, there's no way killing off Lian helps to make it better. I thought Roy was an underused character who was very interesting prior to all this. Now he's just another angry, "I lost my family (and an arm) to a criminal" superhero cut from the same mold as The Punisher. There aren't too many single father superheroes though. So for me, Roy has lost what made him stand out.

I guess him losing his daughter and arm might make him just an angry vigilante but imagine the bright side, he could totally get a full faced mask and get SUPER cool like Ultimate universe Hawkeye. People would be like, wow, I used to think Roy was lame but now he has a cool name like "Arsenal" again and carries around guns (I'm assuming he will use guns) and has a bad attitude. Look how popular Mark Millar is right now, why NOT blatantly rip him off?